Monika Herzig on Women in Jazz and New Standards from Europe

Photo credit: Sarah Slover

How do we listen to jazz and to what extent does what we see influence our musical judgement? In an interview with Schott Music editor Julia Baldauf, Dr Monika Herzig, jazz pianist, bandleader and professor of Artistic Research at the Jam Music Lab in Vienna, discusses deeply ingrained listening and viewing habits, the visibility of women in jazz, and the importance of role models in jazz education. Herzig also talks about the European project ‘New Standards from Europe’,  the promotion of female jazz composers, and tackles the question of how greater diversity and participation can bring about lasting change in the jazz scene.

How does what we see influence our perception of jazz?

Gender stereotypes and musical evaluation

Your new study on whether we evaluate jazz bands differently depending on the gender of its players is due to be published shortly. Does what we see influence our perception of musical quality?

I think that’s a fair assessment. In our study, we played the same music to participants, combined with different visual material. Women, in particular, rated bands featuring women as being of higher quality. The interesting thing is that it apparently depends on the style: the more avant-garde or unusual the jazz, the better all-female or mixed bands perform with both genders. When it comes to swing ensembles and more traditional jazz, however, the ratings change and the situation is reversed.

Traditional expectations in swing and jazz

That’s astonishing. Jazz listeners tend to pride themselves on their open-mindedness. Yet the results suggest a rather traditional set of expectations?

In a swing band, there are clear expectations regarding the performance: the soloist – who, in jazz history, has almost always been male – takes the lead. In big bands, too, gender roles were clearly defined, with women always in the role of the singer. My theory is that this reflects a general state of affairs in our society. In peripheral areas, certain groups are tolerated more readily than in the core areas, and in jazz, the core area is simply swing. Women are apparently still considered less capable in that sphere.

Women in Jazz: Visibility, Role Models and Networks

Why female instrumentalists are still in the minority in jazz

Is it because female instrumentalists are still in the minority in jazz? To me, it feels a bit like a chicken-and-egg dilemma.

Young women do indeed still lament the lack of role models in jazz. Leading positions, for example in radio big bands or professorships for piano, drums, trumpet or saxophone, are often – more or less consciously – filled through networks. However, if those in charge are specifically made aware of outstanding women outside the network, entirely new circles suddenly open up and a new mix emerges. That is why it is so important that we achieve greater visibility for women through flagship projects. Aspiring female musicians, however, should under no circumstances allow themselves to be put off or pushed to the margins, but should boldly step into the centre!

New Standards from Europe: Greater visibility for female jazz composers

From Terri Lyne Carrington’s “New Standards” to the European project

Speaking of a beacon: one of your pieces, 'Just Another Day At The Office', was published by Terri Lyne Carrington in her sheet music collection “New Standards”. What impact did this have on your work, and what inspiration do you draw from it for our joint Creative Europe project “New Standards from Europe”?

Terri has an incredibly extensive network. She decided to bring a new Real Book featuring the works of female jazz composers to market, relying on her contacts and her artistic intuition. It features many important women from jazz history, but of course also the current scene in the US. I’ve received great feedback myself; my piece was performed and I’ve had quite a few enquiries specifically relating to this book. That made me very happy. When pieces are published, other musicians pick them up, and that can be another building block in one’s career. With ‘New Standards from Europe’, we now want to raise the profile of European women in jazz. The continent is vast and highly diverse; there is a great deal to take into account. That is why this is not a personal selection, but one that is academically grounded, supported by a team of experts, and balanced in terms of style and region.

Jazz in Europe and the USA

A comparison of funding structures and artistic prospects

To this day, many European jazz musicians spend extended periods in the USA. How do you view the opportunities for development, here and there?

I can understand why many musicians go to the United States. After all, you want to be as close to the source as possible. However, even the most successful of them often live on a shoestring budget whilst they're over there, so very modestly. Here in Central or Northern Europe, on the other hand, there is an incredible amount of funding for jazz; you can do some really great things here! In Southern Europe, the funds are nowhere near as plentiful, and in Eastern Europe it is particularly difficult. For our project, we made sure to select female composers who live and work in their home region, in Europe.

Jazz Education and Supporting Young Talent

Jazz Girls Day: A safe space for young female musicians

Now I’d like to talk about your work with young people. The ‘Jazz Girls Day’ initiative in Hanover has been nominated for the German Jazz Prize in the category of music education and participation. Congratulations!

Yes, we’re absolutely delighted about this nomination! The concept goes back to the Californian trombonist and bandleader Sarah Kline. She noticed that, in secondary school, the proportion of girls interested in jazz drops significantly: in the midst of puberty, the self-assured boys are automatically given the space, they simply stand at the front of the bandstand and improvise as best they can. This puts many girls off at a formative stage. At the JGD, we create a safe space where girls can experience just how much fun it is to play jazz. By expanding the pool and encouraging the girls, we hope to increase the number of active, professional female jazz musicians, and ultimately break the cycle.

New Standards from Europe

Funded by the European Union. Views and opinions expressed are however those of the authors only and do not necessarily reflect those of the European Union. The European Union cannot be held responsible for them.